I’ve always been challenged by the story in Mark 5: 1-20 of the demons and the pigs.
I knew I needed to finally wrestle with it in earnest when I found a piece about the story by Pastor Andrew Wilson in the latest issue of Christianity Today. Like almost every other article, commentary, and sermon I’ve ever encountered, Wilson’s piece discounts the significance of the pigs.
This story, as you may remember, involves Jesus and a man possessed by demons who call themselves “Legion.” When confronted by Jesus, the demons expresses the desire to remain in the area and ask permission to go into a herd of 2,000 pigs. Jesus grants that permission. The pigs rush down the hill into the Sea of Galilee and die by drowning.
“Jesus and the Demoniac”- Woodcutting
It’s a puzzling story. Wilson shares a personal anecdote of an older pastor who recalled that one of the three most common questions about the Bible and the Christian faith he had received over the course of his long career had been, “And what’s the deal with the pigs?”
Wilson is a skilled writer and provides some valuable insights. However, he,like most other Bible interpreters (see this and this and this), seems to approach the story with the same two assumptions that have long shaped interpretations of the story: (1) the lives of the pigs do not matter and (2) the pigs are acted upon but are not able to choose to act themselves.
What happens if we read this story carefully and with an open mind? What happens if we apply what we know of pigs to the story? What if weave in other themes of Jesus’ life and of the Jewish roots of the Christian faith? What if we apply the whole faith principle that Creation matters to God and is part of God’s eternal plans?
If we interpret with all that in mind, this story comes to be even more wholly and richly provocative.
Below, I draw out that interpretation through a step-by-step, question-and-answer format. As you go forward, I encourage you to have an open mind while at the same time carefully scrutinizing each of my points of logic.
Did Jesus explain why he allowed the demons to go into the pigs and why the pigs rushed into the lake?
No. Like so many other examples of storytelling in the Bible, we are told of actions and statements but are left to figure out the connecting tissue of meaning and context ourselves. So we must be very careful about how we interpret the story. We will be tempted to project our own theories, prejudices, and ideas onto it.
What did the demons say their motivation was to move into the pigs?
To stay in the area. In other words, it seems they wanted to remain a source of torment and danger. This makes it illogical that the demons would want their hosts (the pigs) to die while they, the demons, were still possessing them. If this is kept in mind, it appears that the demons’ desire was ultimately thwarted.
Is there any Biblical basis for expecting that animals, especially higher order animals, might have a clearer and more virtuous perspective on the spiritual reality they are dealing with than humans?
Yes. Read the story of Balaam and his donkey carefully in Numbers 22: 21-35. In this provocative story, Balaam’s donkey sees an angel prepared to strike Balaam (a Moabite prophet) down three times, but each time Balaam’s donkey turns aside to prevent its master from being killed. Balaam, who has not perceived the angel, proceeds to beat the donkey each time, thinking that the donkey is being capriciously rebellious. God opens the donkey’s mouth, enabling it to speak its thoughts and feelings. The donkey reproaches Balaam and poignantly asks, “Am I not your own donkey, which you have always ridden to this day? Have I been in the habit of doing this to you?” Then God enables Balaam to see the angel with its sword drawn and to realize what the true situation was. The angel tells Balaam, “If it (the donkey) had not turned away, I would certainly have killed you by now, but I would have spared it.”
In other words, the donkey sees the spiritual reality Balaam is facing but does not see himself. And not only that. The donkey also acts to prevent Balaam’s death from that spiritual reality, even after it becomes clear that Balaam does not appreciate what the donkey is doing for him.
What do we know of pigs?
They, of course, are considered an unclean animal in Hebrew law. We also know they are highly intelligence animals, as smart as or even smarter than dogs. They have complex social relationships with each other and with humans when allowed. They have saved people from harm. I’ve even read that it is hard to find funding to research their intelligence because, in part, it raises painful questions about the ethics of how they are raised for food today in factory farms and how they are slaughtered. (A great book to read about all of this is Pig Tales: An Omnivore’s Quest for Sustainable Meat.)
It’s also significant that pigs can swim. So just running into the lake should not have caused their death by drowning.
In The Food Revolution by John Robbins, one reads the story of a pig who showed protective instincts while swimming. Robbins shares an experience of a farmer who had had a pet pig when he was young to which he was very attached. He would even sleep together with the pig in the cool barn on hot summer nights. He also enjoyed swimming in the farm’s pond. One of the farm dogs, however, would always swim out and then crawl on top of him, unintentionally scratching the boy with his claws. This was about to cause the boy to give up on swimming when the pig intervened:
“Evidently the pig could swim, for she would plop herself into the water, swim out where the dog was bothering the boy, and insert herself between them. She’d stay between the dog and the boy, and keep the dog at bay. She was, as best I could make out, functioning in the situation something like a lifeguard, on in this case, perhaps more of a life-pig.”
Is there any other explanation for what the pigs did and their demise?
Yes. The assumption in most commentaries is that the demons caused the pigs, directly or indirectly, to rush down the hill and into the water where they drowned. In othe words, the demons either directed the pigs to run into the lake and die or the pigs’ instinctive, non-rational reaction to their possession by the demons was to rush blindly and without thinking into the water.
Another way to read the story begins with assuming the pigs had their own volition. This leads to the idea that the pigs decided it was better to die than live with the demons in them. So they decided to not only rush into the water but also not to swim and keep themselves alive. In other words, they committed suicide with a sacrificial purpose. They committed suicide to thwart the demons’ desire to remain in the area.
In what ways does this alternative reading make sense?
Here are the ways I believe it does make sense:
1. The last story we read before the story of the demons and the pigs is of Jesus calming the storm. The disciples wonder in the last verse of chapter 4, “Who is this? Even the wind and the waves obey him!” A reading of this story that gives the pigs some will of their own enables this story to show that Jesus is both more powerful than the evil forces of the universe and, again, lord of the universe itself. He is able to use Creation to thwart the purposes of the demons. In this case, though, Jesus uses the sentience and intelligence of creatures within Creation.
2. We have seen in the story of Balaam’s donkey an animal that sees aspects of the spiritual world that people, including Balaam, cannot see and reacts out of good motives to preserve the life of Balaam. Why can’t pigs, who are as intelligent as donkeys and potentially more so, also act with their own will in a situation where they are confronted with the spiritual world intervening in the material world? This is so unexpected, of course, that our minds recoil at the idea. But perhaps the unexpected is part of what Jesus meant when he said earlier in Mark, “The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news!” The kingdom of God upends all that seems normal in the world!
3. This reading fits, in a radical way, with the theme we see in the Gospels of the Gentile world sometimes recognizing Jesus and God’s ways more aptly than the Jewish world. The pigs are an extreme symbol of not only uncleanness but even of pagan and Roman culture, which were opposed and hostile to Jewish culture. What could be more radical than the kingdom of God leading pigs, the epitomy of all that seemed opposed to the Jewish understanding of God, to serve God’s purposes and eliminate evil from the world?
4. There is evidence that higher order animals can take action for good. There is also some potential evidence that higher order animals can commit suicide. A recent paper by David M. Pena-Guzman examines that possibility as does an article in Psychology Today.
5. If the pigs chose to take action for good by deliberating running into the lake and allowing themselves to be drowned (remember, pigs can swim), then this story actually picks up on the theme of sacrifice being needed to break the power of evil in the world. This is part of the fundamental story of Jesus dying on the cross. Jesus had the power to remove himself from the situation but chose not to in order to fulfill God’s purposes. The demons thought they had saved themselves by appealing to move into the pigs while evil thought it had triumphed over God by having Jesus killed. Both were wrong. And the pigs, which were likely used in sacrifices to pagan Gods, redeemed their goodness in Creation by being sacrifices for the removal of evil.
6. The theme of sacrifice that we see in the life and death of Jesus being paralleled here in this story actually enables us to feel better about Jesus allowing the demons to go into the pigs. Reading this story with the usual interpretations projects callousness onto Jesus. Why would Jesus allow demons to take their evil elsewhere in the world and cause the death of other members of Creation? Why wouldn’t he just have the demons leave the world forever? Why have compassion on the demons?
What if Jesus wasn’t having compassion on them at all but was taking advantage of their underestimation of the rest of Creation? What if Jesus was giving the pigs the opportunity to have a more noble purpose in their lives than they would normally have had – being slaughtered for food or sacrificed to a pagan god? Maybe their example of sacrifice to eliminate evil was a radical message from the least likely source? Maybe it was a profound sign?
7. This reading also fits with theme of Jesus having more knowledge and power in this world than demons. If one reads the exchange between Jesus and the demons, Jesus doesn’t actually assent to them staying in the area. He only assents to them moving into the pigs. Why couldn’t Jesus have known that pigs would be the agents of destruction of the demons?
8. And check out verses 16-17 – “Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demon-possessed man – and told about the pigs as well. Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.” Maybe what was so unsettling to the people of this region was not just Jesus’ ability to free the demon-possessed man of the demons but also the seeming suicide of the pigs. People there would have known that pigs could swim. Perhaps the idea that the pigs they ate and sacrificed on a regular basis could actually choose to do something good at the costs of their own lives would have been deeply unsettling?
9. In his article, Pastor Wilson picks up on the potential connection between the name of the demons being “Legion” and the Roman rule over the area. Doesn’t it add to the subversiveness of the story to think of pigs, a symbol of Roman culinary culture and their pagan religious culture, causing the demise of a legion?
In what ways is this alternative reading open to criticism of its own?
1. There is no commentary in the verses that provides clear basis for believing that the pigs had their own will in this situation or that Jesus expected the pigs to act on their own to resist the demons. You could just as easily read the verses to suggest that the demons either drove the pigs mad or drove them to run into the lake in some sort of purposefully destructive act. This story is a Rohrshach test of sorts. We project onto it what we bring to it. What’s more, there is no indication in the story whether the demons came back or not. So much is left unsaid!
2. There is no scientific consensus about whether animals can commit suicide. Here is an article that casts doubt on the whole idea.
3. You can make the argument that just as the demons caused the man to act irrationally, violently, and self-destructively the pigs would have lost control of themselves, even to the point of rushing into the water and losing the ability to swim.
4. It seems to our modern mindset to give too much agency and volition to the pigs in the story. These are the same intelligent animals we put into factory-like facilities that we call farms. Even worse, the culture of almost every church sees no problem with eating the flesh of these animals, even after the way they have been treated in life and death has been counter to every fruit of the spirit and the opposite of loving stewardship. Anything that suggests that pigs (and other animals under our control) have intelligence and can serve God’s will with some autonomy is deeply unsettling. We are not truly open to a Kingdom of God that upends and unsettles all of our expectations and assumptions.
You, of course, should make your own judgments. Nevertheless, no matter how you read the story, it is worth mentioning that both the possessed man and the pigs are capable of being afflicted by the demons. That should give us pause as well.
We tend to emphasize our unique qualities as humans and to avoid thinking of the commonalities we have with our fellow created beings around us. But just as Jesus was both God and man, we are simultaneously both special image-bearers of God and plain members of Creation. This should give us humility and a sense of fellowship with the rest of Creation.
This was really helpful to me this morning, thanks! I was reading Mark 5 and was yet again troubled by it anew so took to Google. I’ve never heard a perspective like this before. Thank you!
Hi Ashley. I really appreciate you reaching out. Writing this blog has often been an act of faith as it’s hard to know if the thoughts I share reach anyone or have any impact. I’m glad my thoughts on this story were helpful. Nathan
I’ve never thought about it this way before. Great article! Thanks for the new perspective. So interesting! Still many questions though!
Thanks so much checking out the post and sharing your feedback. Do appreciate it!
Right! I agree. My question has always been, “ What happened to the demons once the pigs drowned?? It really wasn’t answered in this article, but did bring up some good points. I guess my question will have to wait to get the right answer once I get to heaven. Silly but that’s ok.
Very interesting insight and interpretation. You are a wise and gifted teacher, thank you for what you do.
I’m very glad this post was useful to you. I’m grateful for your gracious words.
I asked the same questions which led me to read your article. thank you for your cobtrinution.
What I wanted to know was what was Jesus’ basis of negotiation that Legion had to act. Perhaps he might have a military credentials that the Legion would respect.
Who is this sad army that perished and insisted occupying the demoiac ?
this is an excellent view of this story. It is good to view things from a different perspective. There is also a strong contrast between the villagers and the pigs when confronted with the direct presence of evil. the people of the village tolerated it, and the pigs rejected it. the toleration of the villagers is seen in how they responded against Jesus, rather than with the 2 men. this was a similar reaction when Paul cast the demon out of the girl in Ephesus – Acts 16.
Thanks again Nathan.
Thanks very much for your feedback. And I really appreciated your insights about the villagers’ reactions as well. I had not thought through that element either. Biblical storytelling can have so much intricacy and beauty in a very concise package. Many blessings to you.
Outstanding point , there, Wayne!
And it fits Humanity, like a glove !
Excellent writing & perspective on the spirituality of animals, definitely higher than that of man, in both cases the donkey & the pigs show higher levels of spirituality than the man around. Very interestingly in both instances God uses these animals as delivery agents. Awesome insight. These are despised animals, donkeys work for no-pay, while pigs are demeaned as filthy & pagan objects yet humans live on them as food. Nathan, how you unpack the thesis is divine. I come across your article after a dream where I was being attacked and in the ensuing event two piglets come between me and the attacker, I could not figure out the combination. Many thanks you answer my search & questions on the dream from Lee
I came across this after receiving a dream where my spouse and I encountered a group of piglets. It seemed like an odd dream, but soon after a friend of mine from church sent me a seemingly random picture of piglets followed by a few more. Over the past 2 years, I have had highly prophetic dreams of which the source is undeniable. However, I did not dub the dream of piglets prophetic until the photos sent by my good brother in Christ. I am not sure what it means, but any thoughts would be appreciated.
Raising pigs, much less eating pork is not allowed by the Jews… “The sages forbade raising pigs anywhere [whether in the Land of Israel or elsewhere] . . . because they cause frequent and serious damage.”…Mishneh Torah, Laws of Property Damages 5:9. Jesus by allowing the demons to enter the swine and letting them drown together would be ridding two evils with one stroke. Brilliant isn’t it?.
Thanks for your comment and feedback. There’s no question that your thinking does fit with traditional ways of viewing this story. But there is a big difference between an animal being unclean, and it being evil in God’s eyes. Moreover, the reader of the Gospels would also have to agree that Jesus wasn’t pleased with all of what the religious authorities of the time had extrapolated from the words and wisdom God had given them. I admit my alternative approach cannot be proved to be the “truth” of the story. The traditional approach has, however, some significant issues, too. It fits all too easily into a tendency to dismiss cruelty to the vulnerable (people and natural life) as just the way the world works and something God is comfortable with. I honestly believe God really loves this world.
Interesting. Giving the pigs a little too much credit. Nebraska farm boy here. Also, you make a strong inference as to the lack of compassion by farmers toward animals. That is simply untrue. You may want to go to one and see for yourself vs simply listening to media that generates from cities.
Certainly make some great points though. Also said the pugs were ‘far off’ indicating they were smart enough to keep their distance.
Pigs are smart but obviously not close to us. My best guess is they were driven mad. At this point I’d agree that Jesus basically allowed their death knowing theyd either be sacrificed or ate.
Also, it’s possible these pigs were owned by the two men or one of them. The people of the area were hung up on wealth. Perhaps they were too, certainly hung up on something and if the area had all these pugs and was miffed enough to kick Jesus out perhaps these guys were wealthy!!!
The families would’ve been glad to have their men back and the pugs if drowned may have been a blessing.
IDK. It’s certaibly possible. Most people with addictions not only want to be free. They never want to see ‘it’ again.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate the principle of iron sharpening iron from Proverbs 27:17 and your comments are good iron. There are certainly verses and whole sections of the Bible (like this story) where there are different interpretations possible. Each peron can bring wisdom and unique perspectives.
Every detail counts in Bible stories. Your thought about the pigs being far off because they were wisely staying away from demonic activity is something I didn’t even consider. I think that makes some sense. As far as the pigs being owned by one or both of the men, that’s interesting but it’s pretty hard to say from the text. You’re also indirectly raising an interesting question – were people more likely to be possessed if they were unbalanced, addicted, or living out bad values? Is that why the men were vulnerable to what happened?
In the end, it’s hard to make an airtight case for any interpretation, including mine. There’s just not enough data. Maybe some of the things Jesus did were a mystery even to the apostles? But I do believe that we should be careful about reading this story and other stories with the assumption that all matters in the Bible is God and people. That’s not what I see there. I’d encourage readers to take a look at the Bible more closely. One example I’m looking at right now – Revelations 5:13. There is an eternal choir of all of the life of God’s earth singing praise to Jesus. Pigs would be in that choir.
And I want to address your final point about farmers and animals. Do urban and suburban folks understand the realities of farming? Mostly not. In general, our country has ignored the needs and value of rural areas and communities. But does that mean that urban and suburban folks have no basis for judging whether a certain farming practice – CAFOs, for example – is compassionate or not towards the animals? No. To say so is unfair. To blame the media is also a way of ignoring the real issue at hand. We all want to believe the best about ourselves but what we tell ourselves is not always true. Parents, for example, can tell themselves they are good parents but have huge blind spots in terms of how their everyday words and behavior and decisions affect their kids. I’ve seen that myself in my parenting over 22 years and it’s painful to consider. That’s the same with any group of people, including farmers and including people who work at non-profits (like I do). We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. I believe our economy and ag policy have blinded all of us to what’s ethical and Christian in terms of how we treat God’s earth, water, and animals. So we try to ignore or justify what we’re doing. Many urbanites and suburbanites want cheap food and that’s all that matters. That’s wrong. We should pay for good care for God’s earth by farmers like you who should be able to make a good living. And we need farmers like you to ask whether how I’m farming is compatible with the fruits of the spirit. Am I building soil or losing it over time? Are the animals under my care able to do what they naturally do and enjoy or is efficiency driving me to rationalize forcing them to just exist for agricultural producivity?
Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to reach out and share your thoughts. My experience has been that this story is baffling to many Christians. The ideas I’ve shared are my attempt to use lots of insights from theology and even basic animal science to make sense of the story in a way that fits with what I see of Jesus and God elsewhere in the Bible. God bless you in your faith and in your farming.
I’m under the impression that exactly what the outcome was is the exact reason why they begged: to enter into the pigs, have them rush off the cliff and get the people of the town to request Jesus leave the region because of their financial loss. Then they would have the people in that town to themselves. They were banking on the people’s unwillingness to repent of their greed.
The only thing about a man that a demon, or Satan himself, cannot withstand is a truly repentant sinner who submits himself (or herself) to God wholeheartedly (James 4:7). One of Satan’s biggest goals is to stir people against God “to his face” (Job 1:11, Job 2:5, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
From my own experience, life gets worse when you reject Jesus, because now all the demons get to have a field day in your life. But as the Bible says repentance brings times of refreshing (Acts 3:19)
Joe Anderson
When Jesus healed the possessed man, He allowed Legion to possess the nearby herd of swine. The demons sent the pigs off the banks of the sea and into the water, where they drowned (Mark 5:12–13). From the start, the evil spirits wanted to bring death and destruction, and they finally got their chance. It seems Jesus allowed the demons to destroy the pigs so that the people could see just what demons are up to when they assault people. They are out to steal, kill, and destroy, so we dare not trifle with evil spirits.
Jesus’ action also shows the importance of human beings relative to animals. Two thousand pigs dead for one person to live is not an even trade—and that is the point. Being made in God’s image, we are more important to the Lord than any animal. Dr. R.C. Sproul writes in his commentary Mark that the compassion of Jesus “drove Him to destroy the pigs for the sake of one human life. That is how valuable human life is.” For our Creator, one lost person saved is worth the death of many animals.
Coram Deo
Scripture exhorts us to care for animals and not to be cruel to them. Even so, the Bible never puts the worth of animals on the same level as the worth of humanity. We “are of more value than many sparrows” (Matt. 10:31). That fact must be kept in mind in our ethical discussions. When people start putting a value on animal life equal to or higher than the value they put on human life, something is seriously wrong with the culture.
A teaching by R.C. Sproul
ligonier.org
Joan, I appreciate you taking the time to write and share your opinion. I don’t agree with it, even though I know that it represents a very traditional approach. The Bible is sometimes too radical in its content for us to handle. Humans get too hung up on position and hierarchy. That is what I hear in your words and Sproul’s. This is the thinking that has allowed Christians to justify slavery and segregation. Jesus was humble enough to become human out of love for us who are below God. Why should we not follow that approach to life in how we interact with God’s life, with the earth that is full of God’s glory? Love is what matters. Compassion is what matters. The state of our heart is what matters. In my humble opinion.
I have daily, real questions/struggles about animal emotions and intelligence. I am a relatively new farmer with chickens and pigs. I find myself calling each “sister” (they’re all girls!), because in a sense we are all simply creatures, with different levels of intelligence. Chickens are geniuses at what they do. I do however, not just see humans necessarily on the same continum. There is a huge difference in conscience, and consciousness, let alone humans alone being made in God’s image. Still it’s obvious that a dog knows when he’s done wrong and it’s obvious to us when he’s happy.
My heart goes out to Baalam’s donkey, but also to the donkey in Exodus 34:20. I think about this all the time– What separates the lamb in Nathan’s story to David (and note David’s compassionate outburst) to the millions of sacrifices commanded by the LORD? And what about God’s statement about the cattle at the very end of Jonah?
I’m a crappy farmer. My wife’s a better man than I am– she doesn’t have near the emotional turmoil I have, so she’s the one who kills the chickens and oversees the work of the mobile butcher in the fall.
Hi Richard. Thanks for taking the time to respond and to be so open about the questions and issues you struggle with around animals and farming. I have not heard anyone articulate so well what you just articulated in the sentencea about the lamb in Nathan’s story and the millions of sacrificed animals that were the pattern of worship at the Temple. One of my conclusions about life is that there are deep paradoxes that are inherent in life and faith, but I have no pat answers for you. All I know is that part of faith is the seeking… In Psalm 70, which I have been unsuccessfully trying to memorize, there’s a line that goes “Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee” I like the juxtaposition of seeking and being glad. I wish you both well in your farming. I’d really like to hear more about your experience. Thanks again for reaching out.
I really appreciate the time, heartfelt thought and insight that went into this article and what you elucidate here- it’s not only deeply thought-provoking but encouraging to other believers (including me) to search deeply into Scripture and use what wisdom and life experience we’ve been given to suss out deeper implications. I’m moved to pray about the commitment to alter my and my family’s meat consumption habits, though sadly self-reflection in this area is overdue. Still, I thank you. Finally, I am so grateful for the humility and grace with which you respond to the comments, specifically the response to the Iowa farmer- it is beautiful and certainly makes God smile.
Thank you, Elizabeth, for you thoughtful and very kind words. Every once and awhile I receive feedback like yours that helps me know that the words I write and the topics I wrestle with actually resonate with people “out there.” I am so grateful that you took the time to share those thoughts. May God bless you and your family in the odyssey we all are on of trying to joyfully live out our faith in all that we do.
Thanks, Nathan.
This is the best commentary on the ‘pigs’ that I have read. I was in the UK a year ago and the Gospel of the day at one service was Mark 10. I commented to the preacher afterwards that it was a good sermon, but what about the pigs. I have been reading a lot in the field of non-human animals and theology. Just wondered if there is a type of interpretative theology that you are influenced by. Also wondering like some other people, what you would say about 1) the passage on the birds and Jesus comment: ‘Are you not of more value than they’ (Math 6:26) 2) animal sacrifice 3) the new Jerusalem Rev 22:15 Outside are the dogs…These are all puzzling texts for me.
Hi Graham,
I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts and for your kind words. And I quite agree with you that too often we so easily overlook animals and Creation as they appear in the Bible and even all around us.
I just read these words this morning of Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch – “And as for the human being…his heart has been created so tender that it feels with the whole organic world…so that if nothing else, the very nature of his heart must teach him that he is required above everything else to feel himself the kin of all beings, and to recognize the claim of all beings to his love and beneficence.”
How did we come to no longer feel ourselves the kin of all beings nor feel with the whole organic world? How can we not cry out knowing the ocean is being emptied of life, that sharks are dropped back into the ocean like garbage after their fins have been cut off? I don’t know. I believe Christians with a whole faith would be the most determined protectors of God’s earth.
I don’t have a type of interpretative theology that has influenced me. I have been reading much and trying to weave together different elements that resonate with the Bible and the patterns I see in life. I’ve also been influenced by the Bible itself. Reading the Bible together with my son for two years forced me to really wrestle with what I saw and to be more fully aware of the whole “package” that is the Bible. I was surprised along the way. We tend to read with our theology already set and forcing us to read things a certain way. I’ve tried to understand like a good farmer would farm his/her particular and unique piece of land. What is really there and how does everything fit together as one whole place? I have been encouraged in this thinking by the Bible Project, which I hope you’re aware of.
And you bring up three topics that I have not yet written about. I think I will work at the animal sacrifice element first and see what emerges. Thanks for the prompt.
I would be very interested in what readings you’ve found that have resonated the most for you.
Thanks again for reaching out.
While your view on Mathews 8:28 on is great, my question remains unanswered. Demons are spirits, after gone into the pigs and the pigs drowned, what happened to the demons? Do they continue to seek other bodies to live in? It gives me the impression of a dangerous assumption a person may make, “ to assume that the demons also die with the pigs”. Thanks for your answer.
That’s a great question, Eurania. I do not know enough to give you a good answer.
Glad to see this blog post continue to receive comments after so many years, I found the post by simply trying to find out how much of a loss financially 2,000 pigs would equate. You are right we tend to overlook the pigs in the story.
I liked your comments that unclean doesn’t necessarily mean evil we have to ask why did God determine certain animals to be unclean and other animals not. The easiest answer is He is God, the Law giver, so what He says goes. But from taking a few OT survey classes which makes me no expert I have gathered that what makes an animal typically unclean is: 1. The animal carried some sort of disease/parasite that was not easily removed by primitive cooking. We know that pigs can carry diseases and if I remember correctly a parasite that can inhibit reproduction which kinda goes against the whole be fruit and multiply/become a nation to numerous to count etc. 2. The animal was part of the inhabitants of the promised land’s culture/mainly religion.
Overall I think your post is very interesting and intriguing a conversation to discuss at a Bible study or coffee with a good friend.
But and I think you would acknowledge this we must be careful what we “read” into scripture. A perfect example of what I am trying to communicate is Cain and his grain offering it is often said well you see Cain didn’t over a blood sacrifice and Abel did so you know that’s why his offering was rejected. But just because we know what scripture tells us later in the “story” doesn’t mean that God told Cain anything about the Levitical sacrificial system the Bible is mute on this point we can only go with what it tells us which is that Cain’s sacrifice was rejected because of Cain’s heart? Because Cain just offered whatever grain offering verses Abel who offered the best that Abel had?
This is where we begin to see that God is after the Hearts of man not some religious system of laws and record keeping.
So if we come back to our main passage in Mark what is the point, what is Mark trying to communicate to us? And I think you covered it well.
Overall brother thanks for an interesting perspective keep posting.
You write the way I think.💝
Well written and indeed a fresh and refreshing perspective!
This is the way i want every Christian to approach the Bible, not just as something old, but also something new as well. The Bible is timeless! God is in there and He loves conversation. It will never be a boring one! It will never be a monologue!
God implores us to be engaged with Him. There is so much anyone can learn about and from God by listening to Him and speaking WITH Him.
God bless you and thank you for this thought-provoking article!
Thanks very much, Sonya. I really appreciate your thought about the value of approaching the Bible as something new. Along those lines, I hope you’ve checked out The Bible Project at http://www.bibleproject.com. I’m learning so much from Tim and John. And I like the way you put it about God loving conversation. This recalls the story of the young Jesus in Luke being found among the teachers at the Temple “listening to them and asking them questions”. I completely believe God cherishes interacting with each of us and I suspect God observes Creation with joy and curiosity as well. Thanks again for taking the time to write!
great article, even if you are wrong it is a plausible interpretation. It also reminds me of Romans 8 where the creation is groaning under the burden of sin; the pigs are symbolic of that groaning and act upon it to get rid of the evil demons in their bodies…
Thanks for taking the time to write, John. I like the connection to Romans 8.
Pigs can swim. That’s all I needed. Thx.
Even as a little girl i thought the pigs committed suicide rather than to be a part of the violence and chaos brought by these fallen angels. All creatures great and small belong to God. Did the demons want to live for a chance of redemption? Angels made giants. Also how much of 2000 spirits of God from creation was even left with cohesion? Especially if they were all in one man.
Yes! Thank you! When reading this story I laughed and said “oh the pigs probably didn’t want the demons in them so much that they killed themselves” . Then I started to study thus text and reading every translation and commentary. This is one that totally confirms my thoughts reading the text the first time. Thank you thank you!
Olga, thanks so much for taking the time to share your thoughts. I’m really glad to hear I’m not the only person who believes that way of reading the story makes sense! There are verses in the Bible that indicate all of nature, especially living beings, have some sort of ability to have relationship with God. Relationship requires some sort of autonomy of thought and will and even heart. That all rings very true to me.
God bless!
Nathan
I teach a Bible study and just finished Matthew 8. A lady asked me iif there was any Biblical insight anywhere that cast light on what happened to demons on drowning of the pigs ? In my search I can find none.
Thanks for checking in, Dr. Stokes. In my research for the pieces I wrote, I did not find any definitive insight about what happened to the demons. I wish the account itself would have made that clear.
There are some of us who have worked with pigs who remain convinced that some of the 2000 survived to pass demon possession on to their progeny.
I am so very grateful for your research on this topic. As a PC(USA) pastor and new homesteader, I can’t begin to express how tired I am of the hierarchical, traditional theology that often surrounds this passage. I love the humility with which you present your research. Thank you for sharing it publicly and thank you for the time you take to respond to those who leave comments. I appreciate that you tie the pigs’ sacrifice to Jesus’ sacrifice. I suppose I have two questions if you have time. First, I’m struggling to understand the role of “demons” in this passage. I don’t take demons literally, although I certainly agree there are many forces that cause us to lose-sight of the path God would have for creation. How do you understand demons? Clearly, in this passage they are a physical force that can transfer from one being to another. Second, in offering this expansive theology to a congregation, how does one do so without glorifying sacrifice–especially in the form of suicide? During the pandemic, I have many congregants who have become deeply depressed and I think you can guess my fear in sharing this interpretation, although I truly believe the self-empowering, egalitarian approach is deeply needed. Thank you for your thoughts.
Hi Reverend Mariana,
I really appreciate you reaching out with your kind words! (And would love to hear some day about your experiences as a new homesteader and how that is impacting your spiritual life).
It’s also funny you write right now because I’m just beginning to think through another blog post about this story in reaction to several more interpretations of the story I’ve come across.
To this point, to be honest, I have not done a deep dive into research and thinking into demons. Your question compels me to do so. The Bible as a whole presupposes realities beyond what science can measure and understand. I also know that indigenous peoples have sometimes sensed that certain places had a different and darker character than others. I need to dive into this topic deeper in a way that combines a whole reading of the Bible and applying some reason and logic, too.
Your question about glorifying sacrifice is even more challenging. For starters, I would need to understand more of the connection you see and your congregants could potentially see between suicide and sacrifice. Can you clarify that? This story, in my mind, is told in such a way that taking away general lessons or ideas is actually very hard. This is why so many people have struggled to think it through in a way that doesn’t brush off the death of so many pigs as easy-to-accept collateral damage.
I am, by the way, sad to hear of the deep depression of some of your congregants. Thank you for the compassion and concern you have for them and show to them.
Thanks again for reaching out.
Nathan
I have always wondered about this story and I see I am not alone! This was a refreshing perspective; God knows I love His creatures and loved the sacrifice of the pigs. Thank you!
Thanks very much for taking the time to respond and for your kind words, Kirsten.
Sorry, pig-lovers but Jesus is teaching us 1 human is more important to him than 2,000 pigs. He is also teaching us to ask so we can receive because he even grants the prayers of fallen angels.
Demons are spirits and therefore not constrained by time or space. They ask to remain ‘in that place,’ meaning to remain in that assignment of harrassing the fearful and unpius Gerasenes who deserve to be harrassed. Jesus grants the demons a consolation prize of causing the people there financial destruction with the killing of the pigs. It should be obvious that our agency is greatly diminished when possessed by demons. No doubt, demon-possessed pigs can’t swim.
Thanks so much Nathan for the great study. I came across it because I have always wondered why pig oil or fat is used by some people in some places as a protection from evil spirits. They claim it works. Also been thinking what is the connection between pigs and the stories, whether true or not, that devils inhabit the deep of seas. Is it because of the drowned pigs of the Bible?
The only sure thing I know is that demons didn’t die with the pigs because demons are spirits and don’t die the physical death but are kept for the final destruction of Satan and his demons. Once again thank you for the insight.